Need I-Cybie battery diagram.

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PixelOz
PixelOz's picture
Need I-Cybie battery diagram.

Hi I'm new to this forum and I say hello. I was wondering if anybody can tell me where to find an I-Cybie robot battery wiring diagram and I mean the diagram of the interior of the battery. I don't know how the wires are to be connected inside because these batteries are not the simple red/black positive/negative type, they have a third wire that connect to one of the cells. I'm not sure but I heard that the other wire supplies a different voltage to some batteries from the charger. I have all the parts, and cables and the connector from the original battery and and have 10 2300mah AA nickel metal hydride cells ready to be used but I lost the diagram and I want to build a new battery pack but I need to know how to connect the cells internally. Is there anybody out there that builds I-Cybie battery packs or that knows how these cells are to be connected with each other? I have an I-Cybie that I have barely used (charged it like two times only) and then saved so when my niece grew I could show it to her and now she is 3 1/2 years old and I want to show to her what it can do but I need to rebuild the battery pack. I can build a battery pack, I know my way around this and a soldering iron, I just need to know how the internal connections of the battery go. I've seen places where they show you other I-Cybie diagrams but not for the internal battery wiring, can anybody help?

nicerobot
nicerobot's picture

I have some brand new i-cybie connectors (about 4 sets) if you'd be interested in buying them to make your own batteries. I got them from a guy in the UK but never ended up using them. PM me if interested...thanks...

RebelTaz
RebelTaz's picture

PixelOz:

The red wire is 12 volts positive. The black wire is ground. The yellow wire supplies 6 volts positive. All of the cells are tied together in series with red wire on the positive side of the string and the black wire on the negative end. Then the yellow wire is tied to the middle of the string:

I can tell you from experience that spacing in the battery compartment is tight. If the cells have nipples on the positive end, or if you use anything other than a thin metal strap spot welded to the cell you might not be able to get the pack to fit. I found that out the hard way. When I couldn't get standard cells soldered together to fit, I went to Batteries Plus. I have an account with them, so they built the pack for me for just the cost of the cells.

  [ I've removed the diagram here that was erroneous to keep from confusing people - I have attached the corrected diagram as a new comment to this thread. ]

 nicerobot:

"I have some brand new i-cybie connectors (about 4 sets) if you'd be
interested in buying them to make your own batteries. I got them from a
guy in the UK but never ended up using them. PM me if
interested...thanks...
"

I have been looking for one of those for months now! I even requested help finding that on here a while back.... If  PixelOz doesn't get all of them (or any of them) Imight would be interested in getting one of them from you!

PixelOz
PixelOz's picture

That's OK I see what you mean by the nipples in the cells, yes I was afraid of that because I now about those cells that do not have them that are precisely used for building battery packs and I did notice how tight the old batteries fit in the compartment. I'm also aware about solder tabs for batteries, so or either I buy a new battery pack for My I-Cybie (some people still sell the new 2300 mah ones around) or I get 10 cells that are nipple-less. I've seen some of those come with soldering tabs already attached to them, those are probably the ones that those people used to build the battery pack for you cause their are like the ones the battery pack from the factory had. Companies that build battery packs also put shrink wrap plastic around them usually so that's another plus cause that's easier than to get the heat shrinkable plastic, I mean I know how to get it through the web and I have I heat gun from r/c planes but it's an extra step.

Anyway thanks for the explanation, now I know that I have to solder the yellow wire between the 5th and 6th cell to supply 6 volts to the robot and that the charger just uses the outer ones to charge the whole pack so I see that the diagram is pretty straightforward.

By any means, do you know for how long do you have to charge the battery pack if you use the 2300 mah version? I know that the original batteries (the 800 mah ones that mine had) were only supposed to be charged 3 hours instead of the 10 hours indicated in the quick reference card and that many people damaged their battery packs because of that so I know that for the old 800 mah battery pack you have to charge the batteries only for 3 hours but I'm not so sure how long it is for the large 2300 mah pack, now if I extrapolate from the 800 mah battery literally it would be something like 8.6 hours of charge. Do you have any idea if this is somewhere in the vicinity? I also heard that at the end Tiger Electronics made some sort of attachment for the charger to prevent overcharge but I'm not sure about it, I haven't read much about it, do you know anything about that?

PixelOz
PixelOz's picture

Oh, about those connectors I don't need them cause I saved all of the wires and the connector from the original battery, the only thing that I threw away were the cells cause they were too old so you can buy those connectors if you want to.

RebelTaz
RebelTaz's picture

PixelOz said: 
Anyway thanks for the explanation, now I know that I have to solder the yellow wire between the 5th and 6th cell to supply 6 volts to the robot and that the charger just uses the outer ones to charge the whole pack so I see that the diagram is pretty straightforward.
By any means, do you know for how long do you have to charge the battery pack if you use the 2300 mah version?

 

Just to clarify - the yellow wire goes between the 3rd and 4th cells, not the 5th and 6th. And I may be wrong about this, but the 6 volt tap is used to power the CPU and the electronics, while the 12 volt tap is used to power the motors. 

As for how long to charge the pack, I wouldn't simply extrapolate from the 800mA pack. How long you charge the pack will depend on how much current the charging circuit is supplying to the battery pack and how the circuit charges the batteries - constant current, constant voltage or a combination. I will assume that since you can overcharge the battery, that the charging circuit isn't automatic, and since the original packs were NiCad, I will assume that the charger is constant current (I may be wrong about that). In that case, you would need to find the current that the charger is supplying and calculate the time required. 

Good luck...

PixelOz
PixelOz's picture

I'm confused. If the tap has to be 6 volts how comes it goes between the 3rd and 4th cells? A rechargeable AA nickel metal hydride cell has 1.2 volts and if you tap the battery between the 3rd and 4th cells you don't get 6 volts, you get 3.6 volts cause if you tap the battery between the 3rd and 4th cells your are only really tapping 3 cells and 1.2 x 3 = 3.6 volts. I though that by tapping them between the 5th and 6th cells you then tap 5 cells and that is 1.2 x 5 = 6.0 volts. I think that if you are supposed to tap the battery between the 3rd and 4th cells then maybe it really needs 3.6 volts instead of 6 volts. Now I'm not so sure about this, can you clarify this? Am I doing something wrong?

I've also seen some smart chargers out there that don't cost that much (about 24 dollars or less) that can be used to charge batteries up to 12 volts in about 2 to 3 hours and come with a Tamiya connector so all that's needed is a Tamiya to I-Cybie connector adapter and I have what I need to make that. I've also seen one on E-bay that comes with the Tamiya to I-Cybie adapter. These chargers sense when the battery is fully charged so they wont damage it. I might get myself one of these and save myself the trouble of having to watch for the charging time.

RebelTaz
RebelTaz's picture

Wow! I am SO sorry... No you aren't doing anything wrong. I'm an idiot. I am missing four cells on that diagram! I don't know where I got six cells from. There are ten cells in that pack... You are correct that the tap goes between the 5th and 6th cells - center tapped. I'll fix that diagram tonight.

No more 3am foruming for me!

PixelOz
PixelOz's picture

So you are sure about the tap being 6 volts? If that's the case then it's OK.

RebelTaz
RebelTaz's picture

Yeah.. I'm sure the tap is 6v...

RebelTaz
RebelTaz's picture

Here is the corrected diagram for the iCybie battery wiring... Sorry for any confusion...

 

PixelOz
PixelOz's picture

Thanks for your effort. Much appreciated.

tonino
tonino's picture

i want to try this battery http://www.focalprice.com/EB030G/AA_NiMH_12V_1600mAh_RC_Battery_Packs_Gr...

changing the connector and adjusting the circuit to get the 6 volts and 12.

Zerover
Zerover's picture

I would get the 2000 mah. Two of them will give you about 2 1/2 hours of run time on a 4 hour charge and they work pretty well with the Walk Up Charger. You'll need to modify the I-cybie to make the new batteries fit, but that is pretty easy. Remove the pin out of the pop-up hook retainer in the battery compartment (push the pin to the rear of the robot) and take out the curved retainer. Don't worry about the pop up shaft.
Building a suitable pack is easy if you follow the wire diagram, but after-market 5 cell flat packs are a bit larger than the ones used in the standard pack released with the robot so you will be trying to make the pack as short as possible. Position the batteries pole to pole and re-route wires for each pack so that they are not between the batteries and yet not in a place where they can be pinched between the batteries and the sides of the battery compartment. Important: make sure that no naked terminals touch at any point--so keep this in mind when you re-route the wires. Tape the battery packs together with electrical tape but be carefull not to cover the outer ends of the batteries with tape (the ends that touch the ends of the battery compartment)because the idea is to minimize friction and keep the pack as short as possible. Keep in mind that it does not take much tape to bind the batteries together because the battery compartment will essentially hold the packs together during operation. Of course you'll have to solder the three prong plug to the terminals per diagram but be sure to not to make the terminal wires too long--there is the compartment door to consider. Now take a length of twine and tie it around the pack near the mid section and leave a loop large enough to get a grip on--you'll need this to help pull the batteries out of the case when you have to extract them. Finally, lubricate the ends of the batteries with silicon grease or powdered graphite and push the battery into the compartment--it will be a tight fit at first--but it will get easier over time as the batteries compress together. You don't need much lubrication. Closing the compartment door sometimes can become an issue but it can be done with a little finess.
Here's what I used: http://www.shopmania.com/batteries/p-tenergy-6v-nimh-rx-receiver-battery.... Using the afore method you can build an I-Cybie battery pack for under 30 bucks including shipping in most cases.

tonino
tonino's picture

hello, you mean would have to put the 2 batteries together, the 12 and 6 volt? in the same place?

Zerover
Zerover's picture

Use two 6 volt flat packs (5 cells each)like the ones you linked to or the ones I linked, arrange them end to end to make one 10 cell battery pack like the original i-cybie battery set up. The wire diagram you can find on this site has the two 6 volt battery packs connected in "series" so the total voltage adds up to 12 volts. The diagram also indicates that you attach the battery connector at both the 12 volt terminal and 6 volt terminal to get the dual voltage needed to run the robot.
My packs are arranged end to end with the terminals for each pack facing inward to minimize friction against the outer case. I leave as much of the original shrink wrap on the individual battery packs as possible to prevent a short circuit and instead, tease the wires out of the wrap to connect the packs together. Then I tape the whole bundle together with electrical tape, rig a extractor strap out of twine--and I'm done.
Check this site for the I-cybie battery wiring diagram and you'll see what I mean.

tonino
tonino's picture

ok thanks probably i will buy 2 of this http://www.focalprice.com/EB036G/AA_NiMH_60V_1800mAh_RC_Battery_Packs_Gr..., less than 9 euros for 2, for try

Zerover
Zerover's picture

Yeah--the 12 volt battery pack you linked to lacks the center 6 volt tap used by the robot for reversing the motors. You'd have to take it apart anyway to get it to work. I-Cybie battery connectors are 3 prong connectors. The red wire carries 12 volts and the yellow carries 6 volts. Black is ground of course. That said, the battery charges through only two prongs (black and red) so you can use just about any properly rated charger as long as you have the proper 3 prong connector--and you don't have to have I-Cybie connectors either, it just has to be 3 prong, small enough to fit in the case and all connectors must be able to mate.

tonino
tonino's picture

Hi, I've had the two 6 volt batteries but now do not know how to have the two voltages (6 and 12) without having to remove the plastic package, I guess there is no other way? sorry for my bad English.

these are the batteries that I have received:

http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/8339/20120504212704.jpg

thanks for all your help

Zerover
Zerover's picture

The batteries you bought look like they will work well for building an i-cybie battery pack. Keep in mind you are going to need to make sure they will fit in the robotÂ’s case. In order for this to work, youÂ’ll have to experiment with different ways to orient the individual battery packs against one another in order to achieve the shortest length for the overall pack. I found that facing the battery terminal wires inward and flipping one battery pack over makes for the most compact form.

I am not sure if your photo shows it or not, but if the terminal wires from the batteries run beneath the shrink wrap at the end of the battery packs, then the wires may add a little extra length when the individual packs are put together. If they do, I found that it is better to slit the shrink wrap of one of the packs and free the wires so that they can be re-routed so as to not be between the packs. The batteries in the packs are primarily held together by the tabs. The wrap mainly keeps the batteries from flexing against one another (which wonÂ’t be a problem in I-CybieÂ’s small battery compartment). I found that I could cut open one end of each pack and re-route the wires so that they were not between the packs and then just taped the shrink wrap back together. Once the wires are free, arrange the battery packs so that they fit together as tightly as possible, then solder the connections according to the diagram. Warning: if you connect the wrong terminals together you will short circuit the batteries and the wires will melt and the battery might catch on fire or explode. It is your risk. If done as described the battery terminal plug will now originate from the center of the pack, rather than the end like the original battery set up. Make sure you have enough terminal wire to form a small loop so that you can manipulate the terminal plug.

tonino
tonino's picture

Hello, finally i make the battery for the i-Cybie, I leave my page with the info. do not know what will last after charging, I have not had time to try.

http://bit.ly/Lp48yM

thanks for all your help

tonino
tonino's picture

hi, simply connecting the Red wire of the 1st battery with the Black wire of the 2nd Battery as follows, so we will have 6 V in the Red/black cables and 12 in the following red wire.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/521/img1409p.jpg/

here have the video testing http://youtu.be/WXX41BXuZPA

tonino
tonino's picture

the only thing unusual is that with the original battery when you would put in the i-Cybie was check of the engines, this does not, the other thing i'm not sure how time can work with a big charge, yesterday nigh i charged about 2 hours and today when i plug it only work about 10 minutes when it has put in charge mode.

sorry for my english

tonino
tonino's picture

hello

something happens to the batteries as not normal after a load of about 4 hours yesterday, today has not work more than 5 minutes, the batteries may not be of good quality, maybe the other battery commented in an earlier post by Zerover look more good, the problem is that they are quite expensive, even more than buying the original on ebay.

http://www.shopmania.com/batteries/p-tenergy-6v-nimh-rx-receiver-battery...

Zerover
Zerover's picture

Thanks for posting the pictures and video. I do not know how to post images to this site, otherwise I would have included a few with my original post--but you captured the idea exactly. Depending on the mah you use (again, I think that 2000mah is the best because it gives the maximum charge time if you happen to use a Walk Up Charger as well as a wall charger), a 4 hour wall charge will give you about 2 hours of run time or more (the Walk Up Charger usually charges the battery about 3 hours before releasing the robot). Again, thanks for the pictures and video!

Zerover
Zerover's picture

Sorry I didn't see your last post before I posted again. Yes--5 minutes is not the normal run time. I have built several packs using different battery brands and have never received a run time that short. Check your voltage for each wire again. Maybe a solder point is broken.

tonino
tonino's picture

hi Zerover, my battery say 1800 mah but i think not have more than 1200 or less, i'm trying to find your model in a local or European shop.

a lot of thanks for your information, i don`t have wall charger and today its very dificult to find :-(

...

yes, i need buy a good solder and chek again, i'm charging with the original charger.

tonino
tonino's picture

hello, what do you think about this kind of batterys?

http://www.amazon.com/PowerGenix-ZRPGX-AA8-High-Voltage-Rechargeable-Bat...

with 4 have 6,4V and with 8 12,8 V, the only thing is test if can put 8 normal battery inside and will be a good option for us.

Zerover
Zerover's picture

Since power is power no matter what the source, you can use any type of battery as long as you are comfortable with how the robot performs. As far as optimum performance, there are certain things I considered when choosing how to replace the original pack:

Weight--although I-Cybie is a quadraped, balance and timing are needed to execute an efficient walk (for an I-Cybie). The batteries should be about the same size and weight as the original.

Size--The battery pack must fit within the compartment with little or no modification to the robot--because I am lazy and I don't want to perform a complex modification for every robot I use.

Power--the battery pack must perform as good or much better than the original.

Availability--I do not want to be at the mercy of a single company to get my batteries. I want them to be inexpensive and I want them quickly.

The best battery that I have found to meet those qualifications is a 10 cell 12 volt battery pack made by combining two readily available and inexpensive 5 cell 6 V battery packs. The only tools I need to make this type of pack are electrical tape and a soldering gun. Because the resulting pack is slightly longer than the original, care must be taken during construction to make it as short as possible so that I need not modify the battery compartment. The only modification I have to make to the robot is removing the small retaining clip in the battery compartment--and that is a reversable process. To assist in removing the battery because it will be a tight fit even after taking the precaution of shortening the overall length, I use a bit of twine wrapped around the pack to create a "puller" and a little lithium grease for lubrication.

Tonino, I don't know why your original pack failed but it was not because of the design. The circuit diagram works, hopefully the batteries work in the way they were designed. As you know, unplugging and plugging in an I-Cybie battery is often a violent affair. Sometimes the plug sticks, or a wire is pinched or crimped. Sometimes the plug itself is defective or worn and the pins don't seat properly. In addition, if your solder points are not solid or they are positioned where they are repeatedly flexed during the process of plugging/unpluggin the battery, then the solder point will eventually fail. I-Cybie will not run if it does not continuously receive both the 6 and 12 Volts it was designed to accept. Experimentation is necessary to find the best way to route the connecting wires. I have found that having the connector originate at the center of the pack allows for the least amount of stress to the solder points.
___________________________________________

May 25, 2012 1:34 PM

hello, what do you think about this kind of batterys?

http://www.amazon.com/PowerGenix-ZRPGX-AA8-High-Voltage-Rechargeable-Bat......

with 4 have 6,4V and with 8 12,8 V, the only thing is test if can put 8 normal battery inside and will be a good option for us.

_____________________________________________________

The problems associated with your choice of those particular batteries is connecting the individual batteries. If you have the equipment to weld (not solder) to the endcaps of the batteries then you are lucky. Welding together batteries--even with the proper equipment is potentially dangerous. You cannot solder to this type of battery. Also, standard batteries have a extrusion at one end--a nipple if you will. This increases the length of the battery and makes the overall pack less likely to fit without extensive modification to the battery compartment--and we are talking disassembling the robot and cutting out an end wall of the battery compartment type modification. That's a lot of work to make a battery fit.

tonino
tonino's picture

you are right Zerover, is far more complicated to adapt 8 or 10 normal batteries in the battery compartment part and very dificult to see how to make the connections without soldering. my problem with the time of my battery can be either for the quality of the batteries or because I have not finish the proyect with an iron solder (i don't have at this moment), when as have one i will end the project and test the real time charged.

erricsimmons
erricsimmons's picture

I think you can easily get it at general robotic thread in this forum. I have seen there, so I tell you. I hope that it would be useful for you.

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