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August 6, 2008 10:01 AM

Categories: Robosapien V1 & V2

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Edsh

Member
Joined: 08/06/2008

Hello all!

Ive read many posts on this forum about the problem of bad wire insulation in some RSV2.

Yesterday, I finally found me a good lookin' RSV2 to buy. It was a really good price because it was lost on the companies storage for some months and when they found it again they put  it out for sale for approx 71 USD. (Toys 'R Us in Sweden)

I got to test it out for about 10 minutes at the store and fell in love in a split second. I bought it right off and went back home. Then I played with it for like 30 minutes when it told me the brainbatteries where low.. and yeah.. "shutting down".

Then I put some new fresh batteries in it and it started up just as before. But in its initializing sequence it repeated itself 2 times "initializing...".."initializing...", but it responded to my stop and walk command. I turned it off and put it on again. This time it wasnt responding at all. After about 10 tries with only starring blue eyes it worked again..  for 3 minutes :(

I checked the batteries (for the 6th time or something) and the left foots brain AAA's was burning hot.

This is surely the symptoms Ive read about in nearly all posts about the bad wire insulation. Batteries getting hot and strange blazing fast battery drainage. I can get it to work for tops 1-2 minutes on a new set of batteries now but I dont really like to play with fire.

I know, this surely sounds like a shortage, but what Ive been searching for on this forum without luck is detailed instruction how to fix this problem. It really seems that the electronics works as it should (during the 1 minute before battery drains out) and if the problem is just because of some wires it ought to be quite an easy thing to fix, isnt it? Maybe fix the insulation problem area at a first step?. 

I havent opened it up yet, but feel like i want to do that really soon, because I miss my new pals excellent personality ;) 

I know there may be answers like "buy a new one as spare", "return it to the store", "mail wowwee for a replacement" etc etc.  This isnt really a way to go for me I think. The price for a new RSV2 here in sweden is about 285 USD and as it was the stores last product it cant be replaced and so on.  

Is it without doubt a bad wire problem? hot batteries surely points to a shortage, but the following is indeed interesting I think and I havent noticed anyone talking about it:

The brain batteries seems to be connected in parallel! I turned it on today. It did its initialization stuff and I turned it off. Layed him down for taking out the hot batteries and what did I see? Well no batteries in the left foot, only in the right foot. This points me to believing that the left batteries is just shorted out and gets hot, while the right batteries stands for all the power - leading to a quick drain. I mean, it feels like the right foot batteries stands for all the power to the brain and therefore cant push the needed voltage and it shuts down in less than a minute.

Well, Im really looking for some nice instructions on how to get to the wires. May be its a clear view where the bad wires are located to get it fixed. Is it a complex process? Is it hard to get his body parts off. Are the wires hard to handle? I have some history in electronics and like to now if I have to get into wiring directly on the circuitboard? (Doesnt sound like I have to do that coz of that parallell batterystrategy). 

Another reason why Id like to fix it instead of trying to get it replaced is that it got the original (awesome!) tracking hardware.

Firstly I thought the problem was about bad batteries, and for about 23 USD later I found this forum and the wire problem discussions.. 

Please help, do you guys have any photos to share about getting into his hood? :D

Best wishes,
   Eddie

Discussion:    Add a Comment | Comments 1-17 of 17 | Latest Comment

MrScott Avatar
Member
August 6, 2008 12:23 PM

Not sure how detailed a discussion you need, as you've noted we've had several discussions on here. They all boil down to variations on

Step 1 - take apart the chest
Step 2 - take apart the legs
Step 3 - replace all the wires that have crumbling insulation.
Step 4 - reverse steps 2 and 1

Some folks have talked about paint on insulation as a variation on step 3. I haven't heard that anybody actually used the technique, though.

I suppose you could also use copious (expensive) amounts of heat shrink tubing to slip over each wire. You'd have to remove a connector from each wire end, or cut the wire in the middle, slide tubing over each half, slide another heat shrink tube on for the joint, resplice, reposition the middle tube, and shrink everything.

Whether or not you've toasted any electronics or motor drive circuits cannot really be determined until you repair the shorting wires and try it out. Some very careful placement of the bare wires so they don't touch each other might permit powering up the robot for a test. The danger is that the robot moves as part of the powerup, and the bare wires may move and short again.

ScottE -- collecting and building robots for 40 years - details in profile

Edsh Avatar
Member
August 6, 2008 3:07 PM

Hey MrScott,

Thank you very much for your fast and excellent answer! I've probably missed some of the topics about this up coming surgery due to my stressed out desperation of getting my bot working ;). Your description eases my nerves about this dissection of Mr Rsv2 (didnt give "him" a name yet ^^).

The instructions is a good go, but I got some small but more detailed questions about the steps. I know, I probably should just open it to get into it, but Id like to catch some more info so everything will go as planned ;) here follows a list of questions associated with your list:

1. Is there anything connected to the chest behind it to be extra careful about?

2. When taking a part the legs, do you refer to just remove the "shell" or is there any parts connected to it?

3. Ive seen some pictures about the wiring on other topics.
3.1 Does the talk about the bad wires refer to wires inside the legs mainly (refering to this insulation problem) or may it be bad wires in the chest area too?
3.2 Another question is if there are seperate wirings from each foot to the chest (or something alike) or is the two feet are serial wired (from one foot to the other and then to the chest area)? (I came to think about this because I looked at some circuit board schematics earlier today about the bots feets.)

I probably replace all the wirings if its not too much work. Otherwise that heat shrink tube you mention is a good choice, if the "tubed" wires can fit all together. Tho, it sounds like it isn't too narrow space to work in?

Anyway, thank you! Ill post a follow up on the progression. And may be with some pictures through out the process if its appreciated by someone :)

Ill be back!
...Eddie

MrScott Avatar
Member
August 6, 2008 3:24 PM

If you shake the robot, does multi-colored insulation "confetti" come out? That seems to be a common symptom of the degenerating insulation. The insulation is basically turning to dust and falling off the wires.

I haven't had to do this repair on my own RSV2, so anything you get from me is 2nd hand based on what I've read in the same threads that are here for you to read.

http://www.robocommunity.com/search?search=crumbling%20insulation

Some threads in particular that look promising for details include...

http://www.robocommunity.com/forum/thread/12258/RS-V2-Mostly-Dead/?

Our other admin, Milw, offered dissassembly advice in this post in that thread...

http://www.robocommunity.com/forum/thread/12258/RS-V2-Mostly-Dead/#9755

ScottE -- collecting and building robots for 40 years - details in profile

Nocturnal Avatar
Member
August 6, 2008 4:33 PM

I believe milw indicated that paint on insulation was a no go.

I suppose expense is relative, I didn't find the $3 a meter for heat shrink to expensive (especially not compared to replacing the wiring), but then I only had to repair a handful of wires. The main trouble with replacing the wiring entirely is having to deal with the sockets.

RoboGuide - Your guide to hacking all things WowWee

Edsh Avatar
Member
August 6, 2008 6:21 PM

Thank you for your answers, MrScott and Nocturnal!

Finally I gathered my nerves and put my phillips into action. Well, I may have sounded quite anxious about modding stuff, but thats really because I just bought it.

Im very glad I didnt try to power it up even just one more time. The wires are indeed very bad looking, but only on the left side (the same side as the foot with hot batteries ;).

The process of getting its chest part off was very easy, just some screws to remove. The only thing I had to be a bit careful about was the back part of the chest because its mounted with one spring per arm. I was able to just put my bots head forward and pull the back part up and hook it up on the "neck" to get a clean view of the circuits and wires.

I photographed every step I made during this process and I will soon put a tutorial of this action onto this very forum =). Well, it's really a good backup too, if something going wrong.

Anyway, as I got no more time for today, the process will continue tomorrow. Then I'll get into action with the leg. I find it quite hard to get the screwdriver into the correct angle for a good pressure.

Btw, the only wires that are damaged is where they line up to bridge over to the chest circuit board. This leads me to think its heat together with movement of the wires that causes it to get damaged.

A question I have is if I should fix all the wires or just leave the good ones as is. I'll probably fix all of them by using heat shrinking tubes, but doing that all the way from the chest down to the feet seems to be a quite long process. What do you guys think about that? Do you recommend to fix it all the way or just at the chest part? But as I mentioned above is that I havent analyzed the wires in the leg parts. Ill probably have to do that before any judgement.

Well, hopefully someone will appreciate this information. Even if my english grammar probably suck big time *grin*

Best wishes,
..Eddie

Edsh Avatar
Member
August 7, 2008 5:38 PM

And here I am again..

Today I was supposed to take apart my bots right leg. And this was quite a failure due to its plastic mechanics. I managed to release the upper (outer) part of the leg by releasing its screws. Doing that was quite problematic due to narrow space (screws reached from between the legs). I did get to inspect the wires tho, and I could'nt notice even the slightest problem about the insulation. This is good.

I'd hope to get to the whole wire from the chest to the batteries, but this is to me a no go because the plastic mechanics that hold its leg together. I cancelled my actions here and put the leg together again. The thing is that the wires are very stable and I suppose they dont move around very much when the bot's in action.

The main problem area is, as said before, at the bridge from the hip to the chest where there seem to be much movement in every day use. Its 100% the wires going to the rightleg-socket (connector on the main board http://evosapien.com/robosapien-hack/nocturnal/RoboSapienV2/mainboard.html) that are damaged. This is interesting as its the right leg batteries that get very hot, and this is very obvious to me because the wires got no insulation what so ever on this very location.

I have removed the problematic sockets from the main board and Im going to use my newly bought heat shrinking tubes tomorrow to fix the bad wires (15 wires are totally damaged, all the wires going into the right-leg socket and to two other sockets (on the motor board) that seem to be the D-battery-sockets (http://evosapien.com/robosapien-hack/nocturnal/RoboSapienV2/motorboard.html#1 << my board doesnt look exactly as this board. Sockets are slightly different in location, but Im quite sure because of the colors).

Im going to "tube" the wires as much as I can. Probably all the way down to where they goes into the legs. This is a tedious work, but I cant wait for the moment where I press play, if you see what I mean ;).

The possible cause of the rotten wire problem seems to be as I mentioned earlier: 1. Bad quality on wires. 2. Lot of friction on this location 3. May be some higher grade of heat on this wires. I dont know the voltage going thru these wires, but a theory would be that its a bit more power here. May be or may not be the case, but one must always have theories =D.

It would be much appreciated if someone with experience (or maybe just a theory) could give me an oppinion about my work. =)

Anyhow, Ill continue this adventure tomorrow with some heat shrinking tube action and other fun stuff to get my bot working again. I have promised photos of my work and at the moment I got about 70 photos on stock.

Very well. Take care you all!

Best regards,
..Eddie

GWJax Avatar
Member
August 10, 2008 10:16 AM

I've done the repair on mine as well, I ended up replacing all wires in the legs hips and back area. I would say about 85% of my wires were cracked on way or another. when you remove the black wrap insulation cord protector you will find more wires to replace, do not just cut off the bad part and pllice into where is becomes good this will only be a temp. fix All wire must be replaced or slip the heat shrinking tube over each wire whick if you do this it will not have the flexablity and your plugs may slip out of the main board. Take your time and replace one wire at a time once you get the harness out. I should have done an article on this but I did not have the time, Sorry! If you need further help let us know.
GWJax

GWJax, To Hack and make mods on robots is a life style and comes natural and not by choice. If a robot has a screw to open it then it must be opened!

Nocturnal Avatar
Member
August 10, 2008 5:03 PM

Edsh said:  I have removed the problematic sockets from the main board and Im going to use my newly bought heat shrinking tubes tomorrow to fix the bad wires (15 wires are totally damaged, all the wires going into the right-leg socket and to two other sockets (on the motor board) that seem to be the D-battery-sockets (http://evosapien.com/robosapien-hack/nocturnal/RoboSapienV2/motorboard.html#1 << my board doesnt look exactly as this board. Sockets are slightly different in location, but Im quite sure because of the colors).

There are different versions of several of the boards. I make no guarantee about versions different to the one I have. However, socket colour is probably a good indicator.

GWJax said:...or slip the heat shrinking tube over each wire whick if you do this it will not have the flexablity and your plugs may slip out of the main board...

I haven't had any issue with my heatshrink covered wires, the heat shrink remains supple and flexible. Usually, stiff heat shrink is an indication that to much heat has been used to shrink it.

RoboGuide - Your guide to hacking all things WowWee

steve_cb88 Avatar
Member
September 2, 2008 7:29 PM updated: September 2, 2008 7:30 PM

Hi Guys,
EDSH, We need to hear from you! Did you make the repair successfully? When you were done did the unit operate?
You can see what mine looked like here...

http://www.robocommunity.com/forum/thread/14020/My-Robosapien-V2-Has-wiring-p...

GWJax, I read what you said as to replacing the wires one at a time until the harness was removed. I think I am going to do your idea here. However, being nit-picky as I am, I am actually going to match the color coding as I do it. I have an amazing wire selection I can use.

GWJax Avatar
Member
September 2, 2008 8:18 PM

Steve you sound like me, I did the same thing to mine and by the way it worked perfect when I was done with mine. haven't heard from EDSH in a long time so it must have worked or he gave up in doing all the wiring.
Jax

GWJax, To Hack and make mods on robots is a life style and comes natural and not by choice. If a robot has a screw to open it then it must be opened!

MrScott Avatar
Member
September 2, 2008 8:53 PM

Edsh hasn't been a member long enough to be gone a long time.

Member Since: August 6, 2008

Last Visit: August 22, 2008

Hopefully all went well with the harness repairs started last month.

ScottE -- collecting and building robots for 40 years - details in profile

Generic Member Avatar
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  • member since: 07/31/2009
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August 1, 2009 2:05 AM

Nocturnal said: I believe milw indicated that paint on insulation was a no go. I suppose expense is relative, I didn't find the $3 a meter for heat shrink to expensive (especially not compared to replacing the wiring), but then I only had to repair a handful of wires. The main trouble with replacing the wiring entirely is having to deal with the sockets.
sorry Im really really new to this :( can you advise what size tubing to use? as Ive looked on ebay & it comes in different lengths & diameters & anyone know which /where is best to buy? I really dont want to waste anymore money or time on this BUT as its for my lil bro Ive got to try- thanks guys

Starliner Avatar
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August 6, 2009 10:23 PM

Xybot,

Most heat shrink tubing will normally shrink a maximum of 1/2 its original size.
Therefore you need to use shrink which is about twice the size (on the inside) as the wire insulation you are covering. You also want some heat shrink that will cover the smaller heat shrink, in case you make large connections when splicing the wire. As to lengths, I always try to get longer lengths, as you can always cut them down to fit. If you don't have enough to completely cover a wire, add another piece to butt up to the short piece, and add a short length of larger diameter heat shrink, just to cover the small crack between the two pieces of small shrink.

THIMK!

steve_cb88 Avatar
Member
August 6, 2009 11:16 PM

I am a little surprised here. I had no problems getting a replacement RSV2 from wowwee a short time ago. It seems to me to be a bit of a big job to have to heat shrink all those wires. Some of the wires go way down into the legs and the whole length of wire needs to be either heat shrinked or replaced. I have taken mine apart and I can see what a mega detailed job it really is. Why not read the rest of the forum and see how to request a replacement? They ARE still replacing them, aren't they?

Generic Member Avatar
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  • member since: 07/31/2009
  • rank: 6642 of 9610
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August 14, 2009 12:06 AM updated: August 14, 2009 12:21 AM

steve_cb88 said: I am a little surprised here. I had no problems getting a replacement RSV2 from wowwee a short time ago. It seems to me to be a bit of a big job to have to heat shrink all those wires. Some of the wires go way down into the legs and the whole length of wire needs to be either heat shrinked or replaced. I have taken mine apart and I can see what a mega detailed job it really is. Why not read the rest of the forum and see how to request a replacement? They ARE still replacing them, aren't they?

thanks for the replies guys

@ steve_cb88  probably in usa (the land of the class action law suits) they are replacing...but here in the uk theyre NOT :( I have read the posts in forum & I contacted wowwee usa they told me to contact (wowee europe) graham sparks-graham sparks forwarded matter to 'robot expert' (maxyme)  -maxyme then emailed me back 'nothing can be done about this problem'- when I replied that its really unfair... their 'solution' of 'nothing cant be done about this' I didnt receive any further replies :( like I said in another post- I will never buy wowwee products again... ever. (& Im a man of my word)

p.s its funny/ironic - wowwee replace the bad ones in usa- all the DIY experts at fixing this problem are based in usa anyway

View unverified member's comment - posted by whel

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Discussion:    Add a Comment | Back to Top | Comments 1-17 of 17 | Latest Comment

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