robosapien v2 neck problem

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GWJax
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unless you only have a few strains connected that can not supply the proper current. Putting a pin in the wire is for measuring the voltage or state of the wire that you cant get to the connector, I have to use this tech. all the time in copier repair.

rybuger1
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gwjax, I tried the continuity tests, and the circuit board is fine- it`s not a sensor problem. I still thinkit`s a broken gear. I also made a new video.

GWJax
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I need you to go back to where the first video is where you her the clicking you stoped the video too soon for me to see what is happening I tried to stop and rewind but theres not enough footage. As I see it my clicking was diffrent from yours and you head moves fine in the controls which mean that the head grear box is fine I still think its a sensor. Please post that footage being the first on with a longer clicking and a more overall view of the chest area, I know it hard to film but all i need so see is where the clicking really is so I can replacate it. Thanks and I will continue to vie the video you ent until you send another.

GWJax
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in further looking into your video when you move the head to your left it's right all the way until the waist moves back the furthest possition and try to move the head the other way do you hear the clicking. Try that for me please I think this is where the lockup is.

GWJax
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Also your first video clicks at a diffrent possition with relations to where the springs are this would tell me that the gears might be broken or at least one tooth in the gearbox, I'll open up the gearbox and see if I can identify which one it would be. but still do the other video for me please.

GWJax
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After doing the disassenbly of the neck waist gear box to my supprise that the gears are going to be very hard to break because of an anti break gear section in it, I'll show you the pictures and you'll see that the gears won't break but they will click so you have some sort of binding or sensor out some where.

here are the insides of the gearbox:

the center piece of this gear wil prevent the other gears from  breaking. But if you still want to check for your self let me know and I'll post a how-to-remove your head , hand, waist,motor assy

Nocturnal
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*Laughs* I could have saved you the trouble GWJaxs, all the gear boxes have clutch gears to prevent stripping. When it strips gears, its always external gears (such as the rack an pinion gear).

GWJax
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Then Why on EARTH! did you not come forth with this information before! My V2 is back up and running, but that could have saved me a lot of trouble. Thanks for the late input.

GWJax
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ok I'm waiting for youtube to finnish processing the video I made about this subject. As I see it You have a broken wire on that sensor board it is either the black wire or the yellow wire. Replace them and check the back of your board where the connector is on the board and look for a bad solder joint or a broken joint. Resolder them just to be on the safe side. As soon as I get the video posted you'll see what happens when the connector is removed. This is the only thing I can come up with so lets hope it's it so this thread can come to a rest.

Nocturnal
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GWJax said: Then Why on EARTH! did you not come forth with this information before! My V2 is back up and running, but that could have saved me a lot of trouble. Thanks for the late input.

Contrary to popular opinion, I don't live online, nor am I a computer entity. As such, I have a life, and a body, that require me to do things that prevent me from accessing the internet for protracted periods of time.

Besides, life is a learning experience.

GWJax
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Well This post could have been said very early on in the conversation when the statement of I think it's a broken gear. knowing this fact would have sent us down the other route of a broken wire or bad solder joint. But at least we know now and I mean everyone that reads the last few post how the gear box's work. I know that we all have a life and can not stay online all day long but it is a shame that with all your knowledge you have you only share but a small piece of it and I mean small piece. I just wish you would open up more thats all. I do respect all your comments and post that you bring to this community but please open up a little. By the way I not mad it was a learning experience for me.

GWJax
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OK after uploading the video twice it finaly took here it is:

I stated in the video to replace all the wires but only the Black and Yellow are needed as further experiments were done. And as I said before resolder the connector on back board.

milw
milw's picture

This thread shows a stripped gear though; it certainly is possible for the gears to break a tooth. The original symptom was described as the hand snapping shut with a cracking sound from the gear box.

Also, I had a similar repeated cracking sound from my BrokoSapien at first, which turned out to be the motor being plugged into the driver board backwards. 

GWJax
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I see your point but if you crack that pinion gear you would have a problem when moving that motor to any possition and he is not. only when the head moves to its right. the rest of the motor functions are working fine.

milw
milw's picture

Yep, the broken tooth let the springs yank the thing back to center position, that was why the hand snapped closed. But GW, your test video made the clacking at the V2s left side of the rack, whereas rybuger's last video shows it clacking on the right side (V2's right side). I favor your pinched wire explanation, but maybe its on the sensor on the right side?

GWJax
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The video I showed was when the complete circuit was out of the board this led to the head turning in the proper posisition as his. go back and look at video 1 and then video 2 you'll see the springs are in diffrent positions.  It has to be a wire or bad solder joint on the board. I could install a switch and simulate the problem down to the tee but I'm not going any further with this until I hear back from him.

Nocturnal
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In rybuger1's first video, it happens when the V2 turns his head al the way left, in the second it happen when the V2 turns his head all the way right. I forgot about Brokosapiens backward motor. The difference between GWJax's video and rybuger1's video, is that one simulates a total failure, and the other a partial failure.

*Tilts head* I identified the sensor as a fault in my first post (the very first reply in this thread), if you really wanted me to share my knowledge, you could have asked me exactly why I thought that, and I would probably have given at least a short version of my reasoning. I didn't mention the clutch gear because I wasn't aware you were going to dismantle one of the gearboxes until after you did it. Otherwise I probably would have mentioned it.

Since your interested in my sharing my knowledge, you are wrong about the problems with the rack and pinion gear causing issues accross his entire range. The problems when they occur, happen towards the outer edge. Why? because the force on the gear is the least when it is in the central position, and the force acting on the gear increases as it moves towards the outer positions. For example, my first V2 stripped 2 non-consecutive teeth on the gear, and the joint would only slip when attempting to move to the outermost positions. By slip, I mean snap back to the center position with a horrible noise.

I have a simple rule of thumb, if it tries to move past the bounds of normal motion, its a sensor problem, if it jumps and skips inside normal motion, its a stripped gear.

GWJax
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Thank you so very much in these simple rules Nocturnal. That makes a lot of sense. In your opinion was I in the correct place for which this sensor that could cause this problem, ect, broken wire, bad solder joiint on the back main motor control board? Or is there another sensor that I'm not aware of. Thanks again, GWJax

Nocturnal
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Since its the only sensor related to the head moving side to side, yes you are in the right place. I would be double checking the wiper attached to track 0 (If you look they are labeled C,0,1,2), and just the blue wire. If the black wire fails, it would be much the same as if the sensor were disconnected as in your video. Its not a short, because if it were shorted, when powered on, the V2 would attempt to center the head, and act in a similar fashion to if the sensor was disconnected. Its probably not a bad solder joint, but it never hurts to check (I'm assuming you are refering to the Main Board).

If you examine the board, you will notice that the yellow wire can be used to determine if the head is on the left or right (or used to find the center), whereas the blue wire is used to determine the outer position. 

And joy, I have just discovered my second V2 has a bad case of insulation rot.

GWJax
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You now have 2 v2 with bad wires, I feel sorry for you, its a pain to replace all thoes wires and thanks again for th info. I've had my V2 put up for a long time and never really broke it down to examine what everything does, once I replaced all the wires and made sure he worked I put him away and after that I moved on to the RQ and so fourth. but since I have it opened again I just may examine everything and do a total rip down of it to further examine the boards, movements, and sensors.

Oh one more thing about the wires, I know its not the Blue or the Green wires because I removed them from the connector and it did not effect the demo, this is why I stated the Black or Yellow may have a broken line or a chracked solder joint on the board.

As of the motor moving left or right If it looses the sensing as my video shows the motor will continue to move in that direction, which makes sense why in video 1 he has a right head failure and video 2 he has a left head faiure.

Nocturnal
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Yep, thats my second one with bad insulation. Again, it was perfectly fine when I got it (second hand). The deterioration is definately age related. Its not difficult to fix, just annoying. I suspect if I pulled my first one apart again, I might find that some of the wiring that was fine previously, is not now.

I should warn you, pulling apart your V2 can become habit forming. I've pull mine apart so many times that I have it memorized. I know the V2 so well I could probably assemble one from parts alone, without a reference. I can draw (and have, when I have been thinking about something and didn't have a V2 handy) basic wiring diagrams for it, sensor types and locations, motor locations, etc etc etc all from memory. For a while there, I was somewhat obsessed with knowing exactly how every single part of it worked.

Nocturnal
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GWJax said:  Oh one more thing about the wires, I know its not the Blue or the Green wires because I removed them from the connector and it did not effect the demo, this is why I stated the Black or Yellow may have a broken line or a chracked solder joint on the board.

I'd debate you on this, but since both my V2's are in a non operative state, I cannot run my own test. In your testing, have you managed to exactly replicate rybuger1's problem?

GWJax
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I have, I added a switch to simulate a broken line on the black wire. I'll post a video and repost again later.

GWJax
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nice on the memory thing, you know when you've done alot when you can draw out where everything goes and even with the wiring. Impresssive!

Nocturnal
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I assume that means you are going with a break that is causing intermitten contact. Can you provided a reasonable explaination for why the contact is intermitten given that the wiring is static?

I never tested a short between the black wire and the yellow wire, I wonder what effect that would have. 

GWJax
GWJax's picture

I'm not making a short, I'm opening up a line, or disconnecting the signal like that of which you would find in a broken solder joint.. the results even though static you still have vibrations that could cause this problem on the board.

As of shorting out the black and yellow, they already are with the brush...

rybuger1
rybuger1's picture

so it`s a problem with the connector`s solder joint, I should be able to fix that.  out of curiosity, why is ignoring the fact that he can`t tilt his head vertically?  I appreciate your help for the neck turning, but I`d like to know what`s wrong with that part.

Nocturnal
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GWJax said: I'm not making a short, I'm opening up a line, or disconnecting the signal like that of which you would find in a broken solder joint.. the results even though static you still have vibrations that could cause this problem on the board. As of shorting out the black and yellow, they already are with the brush...

Just exploring a different avenue. *tilts head* So by that argument, ie because they are already shorted via the brush, we shouldn't test them. we shouldn't look for breaks either because when the brush is moved, the contact is broken.  My testing with a crippled V2 suggest that no one disconnected line can replicate the behaviour exactly as observed in the first video. Which does point to an intermittent cause.

welcome back rybuger1. Personally I ignored it because I can't see the fault, and because the left right motion is a much more obvious and visible issue. If your positive the head is not moving up / down at all, check the motor connection and wiring. Its the motor sticking out the bottom of the torso, at the back, on the right hand side. The wires are yellow and brown and have a red plug.

GWJax
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you have to fix one problem at a time rybuger1 else you get nowhere.

GWJax
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Oh I forgot something, If you remember all the wires that we are talking about except for the tilt head motor have a tye rap on them, I have seen when the tyes are put on too tight they sometimes break the wires in time.

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