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February 26, 2008 10:13 PM

Categories: Robot Hacks and Mods Bladestar

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milw

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Joined: 03/10/2007

Here's whats been rattling around in the back of my head- how about taking the guts and wings from a plane like this one ($30 at Harbor Freight; $10 for spare wing set). It has two motors, direction control is by throttling back the right or left motor. So you get a 2 channel 27 MHz radio, two motors with PWM (hopefully, I haven't verified but since the receiver isn't potted, its possible to identify the ICs and determine the control method. A 'scope would probably do it too but I don't have that) , a 4.8V NiMH battery pack (4x AAA cell size) and a recharger. Combining two left wings root-to-root will give you one set of blades and the two rights a spare set for the opposite direction of rotation. What I like about this is that the motors, props and wings have (theoretically!) already been demonstrated to fly; reconfiguring so the airspeed and lift is coming from rotation rather than forward motion shouldn't be extremely hard (tho I have to admit, the wing tips will be moving a good deal faster than the root, so the stress pattern will be different than in forward flight. At the very least, its a starting point).

Then the trick is working out the control system. The IR system for the official Bladestar is good for indoors but useless outdoors, but the idea is that some kind of directional beacon from the controller can give the spinning Bladestar a reference point.

Harbor Freight plane

Here's the innards

Plane guts

and here's the guts plus my fearless feline assistant (Haley) and two new members of the household:

guts plus helpers

Visit my Roving RoboReporter blog!

Discussion:    Add a Comment | Comments 1-25 of 32 | Latest Comment | 1 2 Next »

February 26, 2008 11:00 PM

for the beacons you must have at least 3 to get a set fix of where the craft is at all times. this will limit you to a very small flying space, You could use both ping and A strong IR beacon to get the loction of the craft or a small gps on the craft. I know of this plane I have 2 harbor freights in town and I'll wait til they go on sale for 20 bucks and get one or 2. If you could draw up a scetch of what you are trying to get it to look like this would be very helpfull. So I can build one with you and help program it as well. I like the idea but some bugs must be worked out first.

GWJax, To Hack and make mods on robots is a life style and comes natural and not by choice. If a robot has a screw to open it then it must be opened!

February 26, 2008 11:08 PM

just thought of something. If you make it like the bladestar you can control the right and left turns of a spinning top with servos that control each main blade with a servo on each blade. move one blade up tilt and you have either a right or left turn and the same with the other. keep them at the same point then it will hover. Use the props for the turning of the craft and speed that it rotates the faster more up lift and vica versa fo down lift.

GWJax, To Hack and make mods on robots is a life style and comes natural and not by choice. If a robot has a screw to open it then it must be opened!

February 26, 2008 11:10 PM

OK, I'll do some sketches tomorrow. Personally, I think it wouldn't be too hard to set up 3 battery powered RF beacons about 100 yards apart in a playing field. This won't be a 180 mph flyer after all. I'd be more comfortable with that, than relying on a GPS unit to maintain a fix (based on my personal experience with a GPS/PDA). Thanks for the input!

cheers- scott

(ps I'll wait for a good sale too, even $30 is a bit too much) 

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February 26, 2008 11:16 PM

my Radio Shack spider is at 27 mHz I wounder if that would work with this? Hmmmm I guess I'll have to wait till I get one.

GWJax, To Hack and make mods on robots is a life style and comes natural and not by choice. If a robot has a screw to open it then it must be opened!

February 26, 2008 11:38 PM

GWJax said: for the beacons you must have at least 3 to get a set fix of where the craft is at all times. this will limit you to a very small flying space.

You need three points to triangulate a position, but if your only interested in orientation compared to the controller, and determining you RPM's, you only need 1.

RoboGuide - Your guide to hacking all things WowWee

February 26, 2008 11:52 PM

This is true but if you want a little AI involved which would be cool you need 3.

GWJax, To Hack and make mods on robots is a life style and comes natural and not by choice. If a robot has a screw to open it then it must be opened!

February 26, 2008 11:55 PM

That would depend on exactly what you wanted the AI to do. Knowing its position isn't going to help it avoid things, unless you happen to have mapped out the entire area before take off.

RoboGuide - Your guide to hacking all things WowWee

February 27, 2008 7:04 AM

The 27 MHz area is broken up into a bunch of channels, mine happens to be channel 7 at 27.125. My harbor freight has at least 6 other channel versions of the plane.

For receiving the RF orientation signal, it'd be possible to make a directional antenna on the wing blade itself, such that the received signal peaks when the blade points right at the beacon. 

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February 27, 2008 1:40 PM

The mass/drag of the plane wings might be too much for the rotor blades. I know that the blades apparently in use on the BladeStar, and definitely in use on the small indoor helicopters, are thin plastic, formed into a cupped shape to create the airfoil. There's much less mass in those than a  plane wing.

If you think about how fast that park flier is pushed through the air by those two pusher props, I think that's about how fast you can expect the the mid point of the wings as rotor blades to move. That seems much slower than the typical RC helicopter rotors move.  I can see a wing flying through the air. I can't see a rotor holding up a copter as anything but a blur.

It wouldn't seem too hard to test though.  Slap together a couple of matched wings at their fuselage ends, mount it on a dowel, chuck it in a drill, and spin it up. 

ScottE -- Member (always) & Moderator (when needed)

February 27, 2008 2:18 PM

I submit that the helicopter blades in use are thin and narrow in order to work at high rpm, eg directly mounted to a DC motor. Say the forward speed of the plane is 20 ft/sec (= 13.6 mph, a figure from thin air!). To get that speed at a radius of 12 inches you'd have to be rotating at (20 ft/sec)/(6.28 ft/rev) = ~3.18 rev/sec. That's pretty slow.

Heh, and your last suggestion, already underway- will post pix tonight and try the experiment! These wings are a light foam covered with a thin layer of harder plastic, more than just a layer of paint tho. I'll have to borrow an analytical balance again to do some measurements.

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February 27, 2008 9:31 PM

Darn, my camera battery died. I did put the wings together and spin in a drill as you suggested, MrScott. I can make 'em go pretty darn fast, blurred and wooshing with no sign of stress. I wish I had one of those car tachometers! (oh yeah, there must be an easy way to rig a tach too from some microcontroller or other!). Here's a couple of diagrams showing the idea of two left wings, first with the motors mounted at the 'stock' wing positions (too close to center in my opinion); the second mounted as in Bladestar with an acute angle between the prop and leading edge of next wing.

Stock configuration

Bladestar configuration

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February 27, 2008 9:37 PM

I didn't mean that the wings wouldn't hold up. I meant that the motors packaged with the plane wouldn't likely push them through the air much faster than how fast they push the plane.

It's a thrust to drag ratio concern, not a materials strength concern. 

ScottE -- Member (always) & Moderator (when needed)

February 27, 2008 9:54 PM

Ah yes. And the amount of lift needed is going to be less than in the full plane since we're losing the fuselage and tail assemblies. But offsetting that is the extra electronics needed for the orientation beacon detection.

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February 27, 2008 10:19 PM

Nice start guys, Looking on with interest. If there is anything I can help with let me know.

People yearn after this robotic dream, but you can't strip your life of all meaning, emotion and feeling and expect to function.


Robotic madness http://robosapienv2-4mem8.page.tl/

February 27, 2008 11:10 PM

I'm still waiting to touch a BladeStar. I'm surprised how whipping quick that little bugger spins up. It must be featherlight to have those small motors and props spin it up so quickly.

Have you seen the flying saucer style toys that have been out for the past couple of years? I think all they do is go up, and down. Their lack of control dissuaded me from picking one up.

ScottE -- Member (always) & Moderator (when needed)

February 27, 2008 11:55 PM

Do you have this one MrScott? or is this just a pic you saw and posted.

People yearn after this robotic dream, but you can't strip your life of all meaning, emotion and feeling and expect to function.


Robotic madness http://robosapienv2-4mem8.page.tl/

February 28, 2008 12:00 AM

Just something I've seen. I've seen similar style toys on shelves for a couple of years. The best I can tell is that the only control you have is motor speed. It goes up, and it goes down.

ScottE -- Member (always) & Moderator (when needed)

February 28, 2008 3:11 AM

Here's a small collection of my electric motors that I can choose from for the boom motors on BladeRunner, Thought I might try the CD Rom motors 2nd row center, and see how they work.

People yearn after this robotic dream, but you can't strip your life of all meaning, emotion and feeling and expect to function.


Robotic madness http://robosapienv2-4mem8.page.tl/

February 28, 2008 7:12 AM

Now that's a nice collection! Mine are scattered about in several boxes all mixed up. Nice idea to sort by type! (including Lego motors in there too, it looks like?)

We got one of those UFO thingies from a thrift shop. The main body is a squishy foam that (in our case) was badly deformed. The propellor underneath kept hitting the edge of the foam, so the thing never got off the ground. Hee hee= when I was 8 or so, i tried to make one just like that from Erector set components! (Meccano) Still had a thing or two to learn about thrust/weight issues! 

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February 28, 2008 8:25 AM

Here's a tip on fixing warped plastic parts.  Try running a hair dryer over it. The heat will soften the material and make it formable. In many instances the shape will automatically return to what it was when it came out of the manufacturing mold. If the plastic was bent too much, beyond the ability of the original molecules to realign to the molded shape, you may have to manually reform the part and hold it in that shape until it cools again.

I use this technique all the time with action figure accessories. They get bent in packaging or storage. A quick heat and cool cycle puts them back in the intended shape. 

ScottE -- Member (always) & Moderator (when needed)

February 28, 2008 8:53 AM

Will try that if it surfaces again. I think it may have been pitched as being unsalvageable ($0.50 investment, saved the batteries).

Visit my Roving RoboReporter blog!

February 28, 2008 2:51 PM

This is looking great everybody.  Can't wait to see pics!  I'll be watching this as it goes :)

Pete 

Peter Redmer
Administrator
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February 28, 2008 2:58 PM

not to be off topic or anything.....

Awwww, you've got a robopanda(:^))))

how do you like him?

"Life is not measured by the breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath away."

February 28, 2008 3:09 PM

milw try www.towerhobbies.com and see if they have parts for controlling outdoors. They have park flyer electrics and other small electric planes and helos. They also have a fairly big selection of parts for park flyers. You can also try Hitec's website. They make micro receivers and controls for their line of radios.

Mudbugnla

Wowwee Bots: RoboQuad, Robotyrannus, RoboReptile, RoboPet
Tomy Bots: Verbot, I-Sobot

February 28, 2008 4:31 PM

The picture you made of the BladeStar, the center thrust booms are at a 90' angle. It looks like you put them in a 75' angle. Why is that? Are you going place your boom in as the BladeStar or the new configuration you posted with the motors in the blade? plus I'll go to Harbor Frieght on Friday and get a plane like yours and I'll build it with you tring diffrent configurations of the boom motors.

GWJax, To Hack and make mods on robots is a life style and comes natural and not by choice. If a robot has a screw to open it then it must be opened!

Discussion:    Add a Comment | Back to Top | Comments 1-25 of 32 | Latest Comment | 1 2 Next »

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