I need a way to better see my Dragonfly when flying at night. I can't always tell it's orientation by just the eyes. Anyone have any ideas?
Don't they make glow-in-the-dark paint? Has anyone done this?
Might there be a way to install a couple more LEDs without adding too much weight?
Any thoughts you guys have on the subject would be appreciated. Thanks.
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Moderator
Madison WI, United StatesIt would be pretty easy to add another small LED to the eye circuit and run it back to the tip of the tail- would that be enough visibility to tell orientation? I think glo in the dark paint would probably fade too quickly, but it would be easy to try...
Rovio rules!
Wisconsin Iron :: Cellular Atomics
Member
IE, CA, United StatesHow much extra weight can a dragonfly handle? I don't have one (yet) to experiment.
If it could handle it, hit up the dollar store for some el cheapo glo-stick necklace things (there's like two each necklace and bracelet in a pack). Taping a glo necklace stem to stern of the underbelly might help some. They don't last long, but at that price (and 2-4 sticks/flight sessions per pack) it might be sufficient.
Watch out, don't step in the anthropomorphization.
I like the way you're thinking, but I'd bet a glo-necklace would be too heavy. But then again maybe that would help keep it from climbing too high. I guess I have an unusual problem in that my DF climbs too much. Before I know it's up over the telephone poles and I worry I'll lose communication and it'll drift away.
As far as additional LEDs, I know I have some in one of my "scavaged electronic parts" boxes. Whether they are an appropriate size and rating to work with the DF is another story.
Moderator
Madison WI, United StatesI'm pretty sure the glosticks will be too heavy- it can handle maybe 2 grams extra, not more. I think the best LED would be a surface mount, to keep the weight down; but the smallest standard shaped ones should be ok (2 mm I think?). The eye LEDs are in series, so you just have to cut one wire and patch the new LED in.
Rovio rules!
Wisconsin Iron :: Cellular Atomics
milw said: . . . The eye LEDs are in series, so you just have to cut one wire and patch the new LED in.
Thanks. I was wondering about that. I haven't opened it up yet, but it's an inevitability so why put it off. ;)
Member
Melbourne, AustraliaI was thinking SMT LED's, at each wing tip (Different colours of course), and one on the tail an nose (I'm thinking like a planes landing lights). using really thin wire, it would probably be light enough. Though your battery life would probably see a serious dip.
Moderator
Madison WI, United Statesheh heh, yes, Mr N, you're brilliant! How well does carbonfiber rod conduct? Then a bit of some paint-on conductor, and boila! Ooh I've gotta try this! (I bought some little chip LED thingies to light up inside the PC, they fit inside the hard-disk type power connectors and have 4 different color SMT LEDs on each one... perfect for this type application I do believe (and ironically, my main PC is a laptop and doesn't even use that type of power connector! (nor have any transparent panels to see inside)))
eesh, better hoist meself off to work now!
cheers- Scott
Rovio rules!
Wisconsin Iron :: Cellular Atomics
Moderator
United StatesInteresting concept. Even if the paint on conductor cracks after a while due to flexing, that may only result in the LEDs flashing, rather then being always on. A hairline crack in the painted conductor could possibly open during the upstroke, and close during the downstroke.
With surface mount LEDs, and thin film conductors, the glue to stick the LEDs on might be the heaviest part of the plan.
ScottE -- Member (always) & Moderator (when needed)
Moderator
Madison WI, United StatesMrScott said: ... the glue to stick the LEDs on might be the heaviest part of the plan.and that would only need to be a thin film of cyanoacrylate on the bottom of the LED... or possibly a bit of double-sided sticky tape? (2 mm x 2 mm max I think). Also, flashing the LEDs would give cool wing beat effects, and cut down on battery drain. Often you can get by with a 10% duty cycle and still preserve visible brightness just fine. A tiny SMT 555 oscillator circuit would do the trick, or maybe there are even integrated flashing SMT LEDs?
Rovio rules!
Wisconsin Iron :: Cellular Atomics
maybe I missed this amongst the responses... but what about thin fibre-optic rods? (where the light travels through them and illuminates the ends. ) Like the ones found in those toy wands they give out at the circus.. or where found in funky light pots back in the day. without getting into circuitry, you might even be able to use the exisitng eye-lights as the light source? Just thought i'd throw it out there ;p
Moderator
Madison WI, United StatesI don't think it got talked about, but that might well be the very lightest weight of all. To get good output, you need the fiber to be aimed straight into the LED light source- you can carefully drill a hole just big enough for your fiber to fit, about 2 mm deep, in the tip of the LED. Then use CA (cyanoacrylate) to glue the end of your fiber into the hole. The brightness will depend on the quality of the fiber and how good the optical coupling is- a flat bottomed hole and polished flat fiber end would be ideal, but most (all?) twist drills have a pointed tip.
I'd experiment with some scrap LEDs on a breadboard before drilling into the Dragonflies eyes!
Rovio rules!
Wisconsin Iron :: Cellular Atomics
Member
IE, CA, United StatesWhile a bit more pricey than standard twist drills, two flute drilling end mills might work for getting a flat-bottomed divot in an LED. They can be found in fairly small sizes. Check McMaster-Carr, possibly Grainger, or your local machine shop supply (Inland Empire, CA visit Ken's Tools in Riverside), or any online retailer of mini mills and lathes (like Sherline).
Any glue with a similar refraction to the led casing should work well. Super glue should be okay, but might end up a little too opaque. Some kinds of epoxies should work okay too, go for the ones that don't yellow when they dry. A glue that dries fairly clear should also be able to effectively remove any imperfections in the bottom of the drilled hole, as long as the hole is well cleaned. The right glue might even take care of the pointed divot of a standard twist drill (probably, in fact).
I don't know what the availability might be anymore (probably poor), but one of the old Lego Mindstorm expansion packs had 8 fiber optic bits in it. I know I have mine in the closet still, in the "can't throw this away but I don't know why" collection :) I'm guessing ebay could be a source. If anyone needs to know I can try to find the manual and provide the proper name for the expansion pack.
Watch out, don't step in the anthropomorphization.
Well, for what it's worth I can tell you that glow-in-the-dark paint don't work worth a crap. It doesn't glow bright enough for one thing. But more importantly it has to be applied rather thick and that means it's weight is a significant factor. The good thing about it is it peels off rather easily.
Member
Jacksonville, United StatesHey good new for me I'm Getting a dragonfly and once I get it the mods will start to pop out fast. and I like the flyby night Idea. I'll just have to wait until I get it in my hands to see all the goodies inside and do some weight carring testing. But until then I really can't help you guys out yet. GWJax
GWJax, To Hack and make mods on robots is a life style and comes natural and not by choice. If a robot has a screw to open it then it must be opened!
Member
Melbourne, Australia
Member
Jacksonville, United StatesNoctural nice work but you have the SMD LED on the skid wire. Do you think it should be attached under it so it will not get snagged off like in grass or something else? I'd put it at the veryback of the tail, One on the top and one on the bottom. Just a thought. GWJax
GWJax, To Hack and make mods on robots is a life style and comes natural and not by choice. If a robot has a screw to open it then it must be opened!
Member
Melbourne, AustraliaIts called a work in progress for a reason, that's a temporary placement, its just wrapped around the wire to keep it out of the way. I'm less concerned about it coming off than I am about it shorting on the wire. I wouldn't really call it a skid wire, its more a prop guard.
Member
Jacksonville, United StatesWell pretty much both, skid while you run on the ground and guard in all places. I like the work on it though. What size of wire are you using 32 or 36g wire? and do you have the LED connected to the motor or back to the eyes? GWJax
GWJax, To Hack and make mods on robots is a life style and comes natural and not by choice. If a robot has a screw to open it then it must be opened!
Member
Melbourne, AustraliaNeither, care to guess again? Connecting to the motor would be pointless (and it would only light when steering in on direction), and the eye's are current limited, hooking another LED to them doesn't work well.
the wire is .19mm diameter enamel coated. Pretty much the same as the wiring in the Dragonfly. For reference, the enamel is designed to burn off when soldered at 400 degree's (celcius I believe).
Member
Jacksonville, United Statesso its 36g enamel, and then connected to the on/off switch with a resistor. did you run the wire in the tail tube or down the side? GWJax
GWJax, To Hack and make mods on robots is a life style and comes natural and not by choice. If a robot has a screw to open it then it must be opened!
Member
Melbourne, AustraliaConnected to the switch and battery. The wiring is run down the inside of tail tube.
.
Member
Jacksonville, United StatesI was looking at the tail tube and it looks to me that they drilled a very small hole down the shaft because mine is off center and I don't think any more wire could go in there. No resistor, so thats why the LED is soo bright. Good job Nocturnal. Can't wait for the finnished product. GWJax
GWJax, To Hack and make mods on robots is a life style and comes natural and not by choice. If a robot has a screw to open it then it must be opened!
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